13/11/03 
Department of Experimental Physics
NUI, Maynooth

Denise Gabuzda (DG, UCC)
Aaron Golden (AG, NUI, Galway)
Creidhe O'Sullivan (COS, NUI, Maynooth)
Salters Sterling (SS, Birr Heritage and Scientific Council)
Neil Trappe (NT, NUI, Maynooth)
John Butler (JB, Armagh Observatory)
Jonathan Evans (JE, CommGen)
Barney Patterson (BP, URSI, RIA)
(there was also a student who showed up after lunch - ask Creidhe
what his name is!)

DG: Read out apologies and thanked COS for hosting meeting. She
agreed to chair the meeting, and AG agreed to take the minutes.

AG: Reported on recent visit to Birr Castle by K. Duespohl,
Senior Engineer for VertexRSI, who met with DG, AG, SS and
Lord Rosse in Birr on the 18th of Sept. Three sites
had been identified as potential areas for siting the telescope.

The first of these, site A, is on Mount Palmer, a prominent
hill on the southern end of the estate, with good views to 
the south into Co. Tipperary. It was at this point that the
Jodrell RFI survey was made. KD had reservations about access
of trucks etc. to this site, as this would require enlarging an
existing gate and assessing if access to the field beyond
the main wall would be feasible. In addition, some old trees 
would possibly need to be cut down. Finally, it was generally agreed
that building an antenna at this site could potentially be 
problematic in terms of 'visibility' to people living in the 
surrounding area.  

The second site, B, is located slightly back towards the castle
from site A, in a broad field which gently slopes up to site A. 
KD has similar concerns as regards access to this site. 

Site C is a 5 acre rectangular plot of land located in a natural 
hollow through which the Little Brosna River flows. The land is 
currently overgrown with birches, shrubs etc., and Lord Rosse
indicated that this growth was of no historical value and could
therefore be cleared. The site has good views to the south and 
east, and had been suggested as a good site by astronomers from 
Jodrell in a previous visit.  A drive through Birr 
to the entrance to this part of the estate confirmed that access 
to sites A & B would be difficult, but that access to site C was 
in KD's opinion manageable; this would require strengthening & 
widening an existing bridge over the Little Brosna, but this is 
not expected to cause difficulties. KD suggested that the site be
surveyed to assess the compactness of the soil, depth to bedrock,
firmness of the bedrock, etc. AG agreed to contact members of the 
geological community at NUI, Galway about this.

AG: Reported on a meeting with Prof. Paul Ryan of NUI, Galway's
Department of Geology on the 9 of October. Prof. Ryan expressed great
enthusiasm for the possibility of the Department of Geology being
involved in surveying site C, and stated that he believed it would
be possible for geologists at NUI, Galway to acquire the necessary
information based on an in situ examination combined with existing 
geological surveys. He also stated that the most important part of 
any survey, namely the taking of bore samples, would have to
performed by a third party, as the University does not possess
such equipement. He suggested the possibility that the Geological
Survey of Ireland would perhaps be prepared to do this. It was agreed 
that a subsequent meeting be arranged between AG and people in the
Geology Dept. to discuss subsequent steps in this connection. Prof. 
Ryan concluded the meeting by cautioning about the possibility of 
archaelogical remains being uncovered during the survey, and suggested 
that this be looked into.

AG subsequently wrote to Lord Rosse with regard to any possibly
archeological significance of the site, and was reassured that there 
are no archaelogical remains in the immediate vicinity of site C.
(The letter from Lord Rosse concerning this matter was available for
perusal at the meeting.)

AG: Reported on the status of the Scientific and Technical
case. Particular attention had been placed on the technical
case, as it was felt that it would be perhaps the most relevant
aspect of any submission to complement the ERDF requirements for
the BMW region. AG had also found it useful to use, in a case
study manner, recent developments such as the funding of LOIS
by the Swedish Government, placing its development as a key
driver for Grid technologies. Being able to clearly articulate the 
relevant ICT aspects of the proposed facility is an ongoing
concern. The Geophysical and Aeronomy science cases had been
expanded since the previous meeting. The Astronomy case, which
encompasses both use of the radio telescope in single dish mode
and as an element in various interferometric arrays, is well
developed. At present, the entire document is in Latex format, 
but will be 'ported' to Word. The main responsibility for finishing
work on the Science Case and bringing it into a unified format in
Word are DG and Niall Smith (NS, CIT). It was agreed that, in parallel,
AG would begin work on a brief `executive summary' of the Science Case.
AG also suggested that the final document be supplemented with 
'case study' boxes corresponding to existing facilities of relevance 
to the proposal. 

BP: Handed out the final versions of the brochures, in A4 and in
A5 format. Apart from a slight faintness in the quality of some
of the print in the A5 brochures, it was generally agreed that
they were extremely eye-catching and professional in layout and
presentation. 

DG: Brought up the subject of the Project Launch, highlighting
issues such as where would it take place, when would it be, 
who should be be present and so on. This resulted in a wide-ranging
discussion from all parties. The consensus was that the most 
important issues were building up momentum toward preparing an
ERDF proposal and raising awareness of the project in its own right.
With this in mind, it was agreed that it would be beneficial for
the launch to take place in or very near Dublin, because it was felt
that the launch would attract the most media attention.  There was 
general agreement that the optimal venue in this case would be the 
Royal Irish Academy. BP agreed to look into this possibility.
Individuals to be invited include members of the astronomical
and URSI communities, relevant science journalists in the print
and visual media, interested members of the Academy, relevant
public and civil servants, the Director of the Jodrell Bank 
Observatory, the Director of JIVE, the Director of SKA project,
and Sir Bernard Lovell, amongst others. 

It was agreed that the Science Case should be fully prepared and
the project website be fully in place and accessible by the date
of the Project Launch.

SS: brought up the critically important matter of the legal entity
or entities that would operate the radio-telescope facility, and
would hold funds granted for the construction of the facility. 
It was clear that this aspect of the project needs to be resolved 
prior to the launch.

BP: pointed out that prospective coorporate and other private
donors would be likely to want reassurance that there was some form 
of legitimate legal entity that would formally accept and 'process' 
any donations.  He also pointed out that such donors may well be
most interested in the educational aspects of the facility. 

It was generally agreed that this matter was absolutely critical
to resolve.

SS: Suggested, based on his experience of being involved in 
previous cross-University initiatives, and bearing in mind that
the facility would be an educational/research resource best
suited to this caucas, that the Universities and Institutes
of Technology formally decide to implement a CAO 'model' 
(i) to coordinate the reception of funds for the construction of
the facility from private donors, the ERDF and any other sources,
and (ii) to operate the radio telescope as a national facility
once it is built, on behalf of the 3rd level sector.  There are 
some critical issues to resolve, even with this model in mind - 
it is essential that the Institutes of Technology and Northern 
Ireland be explicitly included in this initiative. SS suggested 
that in the first instance members of CHIU be informed 
of the proposal to build & operate the radio-telescope facility 
in this way, and that they be formally invited to join and 'take the 
reins' from an administrative point of view. SS suggested that each 
interested member should directly communicate to their respective 
University President or Head a description of the project and the 
proposed mechanism for operating the facility, supported by a brief 
project summary (draft to be written by AG).  In addition, they will 
be informed that their CHIU colleagues were likewise being approached 
with a view to it being on the agenda of a forthcoming CHIU meeting.

This course of action was unanimously agreed to. It was also agreed
that it made sense for the Birr Scientific and Heritage Foundation
to be the interim managing body for the project.

The timescale for the launch and events leading up to it was then 
discussed. It was agreed that the launch should take place early
in the new year. It was also agreed that, before the launch, (i) there
should be a meeting of 3rd-level astronomy teachers and researchers in
Ireland who are interested in learning about the project, to be
held at Birr Castle; (ii) these academics should then have a chance
to meet with their Presidents or Heads to discuss the project with
them, together with the possibility of their University or Institute
of Technology becoming involved. It was unanimously agreed that the
meeting of `academics' at Birr Castle should be as open as possible,
rather than being limited to a small number of group heads, for example. 
It was agreed to aim for this meeting to happen in mid-January 2004, 
with meetings with Presidents and Heads to take place in the following 
several weeks, and the Project Launch itself to be held in mid-late 
February. Thus, the launch would ideally serve as both an official 
launch for the ARTI project and for the initial Consortium of 
Universities and Institutes of Technology that would be managing it. 
It was suggested that it would be appropriate to have a meeting for a 
small number of selected science writers in Birr just prior to the launch.

It was also suggested that it would be appropriate to have a
guest speaker to 'headline' the project and possibly give a public 
lecture in association with the launch. A number of possible names 
were mentioned and discussed, including Sir Bernard Lovell, Prof. 
Jocelyn Bell-Burnell, and Prof. A. Hewish.  It was agreed that Lovell 
would be the best possibility if able to travel, and that BP and DG 
would find out what his situation is likely to be in February.

The issue of costs for the launch and related events was discussed. 
BP suggested that there would likely be little or no costs for the 
venue itself (the RIA), but that funds might be needed for food/drink 
and a meal for the guest speaker + guests. BP also suggested that 
URSI might be able to cover some part of the costs. It was suggested 
that TCD might offer the Ed. Burke theatre for the public talk, 
although it is not clear that this would be free of charge. The total 
cost was estimated to be of the order of several thousand Euro, and
it was agreed that such a sum would not be an insurmountable amount 
if some sort of 3rd-level consortium had begun to be organized by
the launch.

Finally, DG raised the possibility, initially suggested at the Cork
meeting in May 2003, that a competition for a childrens' logo for the
ARTI project be announced at the launch. This logo will be adopted for
the project together with the ARTI logo itself (also still to be
designed). It was felt that this would help underscore the importance
of the educational aspect of the project.

Action Items

DG, AG, NS: conclusion and formatting of science/techical case

AG: preparation of draft executive summary of science case

AG: contact Paul Ryan in the Department of Geology at NUI-Galway 
to organize subsequent steps in connection with surveying
the proposed site for the radio telescope (site C)

BP: approach the RIA and URSI about the possibility of the RIA
hosting the ARTI project launch, and possibly providing funding
for at least some of the associated costs

BP and JB: ascertain whether it would be a possibility for Sir
Bernard Lovell to attend a Project Launch in mid-late February 2004

SS: Liase with Roger Downer about the CHIU meeting and with Lord
Rosse about hospitality at Birr Castle in association with the
launch. Review the Executive Summary once it is written. Approach
TCD about the situation with regard to using a large lecture theatre
there for a public talk in association with the launch.